Tao and God
I just came across a statement about the Tao and God. The statement put forth was pondering if the Tao is before or after God.
If you get into Taoism... Time matters not, The term God is a human word to capture our perceptions of how a larger universe works. God is another distinct topic all onto itself. Where people try to "define" a creator or universal power etc, One which people have fought over thousands of years since any definition is an issue of perception.
A Taoist doesn't think the Tao is before or after God. The Tao is a concept to capture something that goes beyond our capability to define, so you leave the Tao undefined and happily explore the wonder that opens up as a result.
The Tao I can define completely in such a way all Taoist will agree.The Tao is : undefinable...
Something which is undefined: is outside of time by default.
If your definition of God is: that God is undefinable... then yes Tao and God at that point become the same concept... and in being undefinable , a person by definition has to leave it as undefined... since once you slap any definition over it... it isn't that anymore and one misses the point all together. (From a Taoist perspective, all religious wars are pointless since everyone is arguing over the same thing. The problem is being blinded within perception differences while in fact they are fighting over something undefinable.)
In Taoist Religion, we do have gods, but those gods are very definable: they are enlighten beings who help us lesser beings work towards grace. In this Taoist Gods are not Tao, but definable beings.
We do say in Taoism: We are of the Tao, or a god is of the Tao... but we say that... since in some aspect... we are each undefined: as we define ourselves as we live. So in that Taoism connects Tao to everything... But its a very delicate logical edge. One which confuses people.
The Tao by being undefinable... has no issues of perception in definition... since perception cannot touch the Tao which is undefined. It's just simply and utterly is: undefined...
People are funny when insisting everything must be defined...
A Taoist knows to leave the Tao as is, and to grasp the Tao: in the chase of living life fully. It's a wonderful contradiction to embrace as it completely full-fills ones life at that acceptance.
From here each person is free to draw their own conclusions... which will always shift to the winds of perception.
I hope this confuses you even more :) since half the fun of being a Taoist is to play in the edges of Definition and Undefinability. I wouldn't want to clarify something that has kept humanity so busy for so long.
Peace
6 comments:
I would agree. In fact some religions seem to confuse people just because they attempt to define God, leaving the door open to misunderstanding, conflict and argument - even war. You can't argue about something you can't even define! Language is so limiting anyway. It is funny though that people still want the exact definition. Personally I like the indefinable essence of the Tao, but if I had to describe it, would say more like the energetic quantum field plus a sort of consciousness. Much bigger than any religion, and more than our minds can grasp.
heh
I love it when you say: You can't argue about something you can't even define!
and yet thats what humanity does. It's a great catch-22 isn't it?
People say their God is indefinable... and then they slap on top of that an image of a white male tossing lightening bolts about.
no wonder we are always at a state of war with our minds doing that type of stuff to us
Of course thats why so many of the eastern religion try to teach the empty mind to remove that illusion layer...
oh well so it goes.
Hey on a side note it's looking more and more like we are considering the big island. I will have to email you in a few months when I get closer to the move date to ask questions and such. Having pieced anything together yet. We will be beboping to few places in between and as normal just living it as it happens...
Well, certainly let me know if and when you make it out here...it's an incredible place, really, I think you'll love it. I'm jealous of your nomadic lifestyle!!
As much fun as it is to be nomadic , it is also a royal pain in the ass.
:)
Even stranger I don't have much a say in it as much as life just happens to lead the way.
But it works, kinda of in it's own fashion. I do know most people wouldn't be able to live in this style of life. At least as Taoist it's easy. :)
Choice is a funny thing , we get limited choices in what we get to do, my choice actually isn't to wander, but to live in wonder... and then everything else falls into place accordingly without me choosing much about where or destination and such... more like it chooses me.
Gads Olympia choosed me for 10 years... so I never know when I am moving or staying in a place.
:)
Ah life as a Taoist. so few people understand us and our perspective on life...
very very strange really.
To me the problem is the aspect of separation. People who look for God believe that they are somehow separate from God, while the study of the Tao leads to the understanding that it is impossible to be separate from the Tao, that any separation you experience is illusory. Once you get that, the loneliness and sense of angst about who you are and the sense of abandonment and "why God left you" goes away.
The problem with God is people always keeping God as some lofty thing above themselves. If you understand that you are simply a part of all that is, you have so much more respect for everything else....
Thanks Donna you do bring up a good point.
In defining the Tao. We do give the Tao two definitions not just The first definition being: That the Tao is indefinable.
The second definition: is that the Tao is defined by our very life and the completeness of every connection . This includes the connection of God to ourselves. In this it all does roll up into the Tao neatly.
As a result God is part of each of who we are in the Taoist view of life. In that we each have the wonder and grace of being complete.
Thanks for reminding me of this as I was more concentrating on the first definition (which is funny since I usually concentrate upon the second: personal Tao definition) since as you rightly say. We often divorce ourselves from the connections within our life.
:)
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